Episode 43: One Labour Market, 27 Systems

00:00:00: This is the final part of a three-part series on cross-border work.

00:00:05: If you haven't listened to other parts, please start there!

00:00:10: Let's imagine across border worker who lives in France and works in Germany.

00:00:15: Every month he pays into the unemployment insurance scheme in Germany.

00:00:20: if He loses his job completely?

00:00:22: He generally receives unemployment benefit In France that Is in this country of residence.

00:00:28: under the rules that have applied today The contribution is paid in one country.

00:00:33: The benefit comes from

00:00:35: another.".

00:00:36: Since twenty sixteen, the European Union has been negotiating to change this rule.

00:00:42: Hello and welcome too!

00:00:48: We work Europe – the podcast of the European Centre for Workers' Questions.

00:01:04: Sylvia Kersermarkas works in the European Commission's Directorate General for Employment Social Affairs & Inclusion.

00:01:13: She is responsible for revising the European regulations on the coordination of social security systems.

00:01:20: Yes, it's a local phenomenon that is across border ones.

00:01:23: so we talk about coordinating the Social Security Systems of the member states concerns.

00:01:30: So you have the member state of residence and the member State of work.

00:01:33: You need to coordinate at the European level.

00:01:35: Member States cannot do that among themselves And this framework is therefore mandatory framework versus working in one.

00:01:43: member states and principle are subject to the social security legislation of their membership.

00:01:48: I think it's important that they have this legal clarity, legal certainty... ...to where they pay their contributions….

00:01:54: …to where can we get their benefits?

00:01:57: Coordination does not mean all countries provide the same benefits or contributions.

00:02:02: Above-all – It means at any given time exactly ONE country should be responsible!

00:02:09: Previous periods of insurance must not be lost.

00:02:12: Pensions and certain other benefits can be paid across borders.

00:02:17: In future, the so-called Country Of Employment principle will apply more strictly to unemployment benefits for cross border workers.

00:02:27: We think it's fairer for them and members concerned that they continue to be subject So that they in the future, when this revision runs into force are being paid to benefits by the Burma states where their last work knocks the place of residence.

00:02:46: As of August twenty-twenty six – The reform provides that after at least twenty two weeks' insurance in the country of employment That country will initially pay benefits for six months.

00:02:59: After that, the country residents will take over.

00:03:03: The European Parliament approved the reform in July, twenty-twenty six.

00:03:08: The council's formal approval may have been granted by the time this podcast is published in September.

00:03:15: Parts of new rules are not due to come into force until two years after they take effect.

00:03:21: Luxembourg has being granted an additional transition period due its exceptionally high number across border workers.

00:03:29: The rationale behind the reform is understandable Whoever collects contributions should in the first instance also pay out their benefits.

00:03:38: However, this does nothing to address the underlying problem – The level of unemployment benefit, eligibility criteria and administrative procedures remain a national matter.

00:03:57: The challenges surrounding working from home have grown.

00:04:02: European rules stem from a world work in which people normally worked for a single employer, in one country.

00:04:09: Today they switch more frequently between the office their country of residence self-employment and multiple jobs.

00:04:17: from the perspective of mobile workers A complete harmonisation.

00:04:21: if the systems might be simpler Politically however it is hardly achievable.

00:04:28: One of the ambitions this commission is indeed simplification of legislation making it easier for employers, employees and administrations to apply.

00:04:39: But we also need a knowledge that coordination is about coordinating national system.

00:04:44: We will not be able take one more step in what kind of harmonise model but this won't happen because the treaties acknowledge the national competence of member states.

00:04:55: The Commission is therefore focusing on better co-ordination and digitalisation.

00:05:01: Social Security authorities already exchange data electronically.

00:05:05: The next step planned is a European social security passport.

00:05:10: Documents, such as the A-one certificate or the European Health Insurance card are to be stored digitally and made available for direct verification by the authorities.

00:05:23: A digital document can speed up the verification process.

00:05:27: however it does not yet resolve every issue of jurisdiction.

00:05:31: Mandy Nürsen from the LCGB is following European reform and trying to assess its implications for Luxembourg.

00:05:40: We already met her in the first episode, she's the trade union secretary of European relations as well as for the greater region.

00:05:49: In her view new rules alone are not enough.

00:05:56: we're

00:05:56: calling better data sharing between the administrations because, particularly when it comes to pensions the process can sometimes take a very long time.

00:06:07: An employee who has worked in Luxembourg but perhaps also Germany must start preparing for their pension and making inquiries early on so that information could flow between the pension funds –and it can be confirmed how many months they have actually worked-so that the pension can be

00:06:25: recognised.".

00:06:31: The European compromise sets out clear principles regarding unemployment benefit.

00:06:37: Nevertheless, the trade union still has unresolved questions regarding its practical implementation.

00:06:44: Which employment service should a cross-border worker contact?

00:06:48: Who is responsible for helping them find a job?

00:06:51: which authority monitors compliance with their obligations?

00:06:55: And what happens once the period during which the former country of employment makes payments has ended?

00:07:05: How are unemployed cross-border workers treated.

00:07:08: Do they contact ADEM, The Unemployment Benefits Agency in Luxembourg or do they do so in Germany France or Belgium?

00:07:16: who exactly looks after these people?

00:07:19: can They go wherever they like?

00:07:21: These are all questions that remain unanswered.

00:07:24: Also, what happens once I've received six months' unemployment benefit?

00:07:29: Does it stop then?

00:07:31: Who will pay then if haven't found a new

00:07:33: job?".

00:07:35: The aim therefore is to make the rules fairer.

00:07:39: Implementing them will require the creation of new procedures points-of-contact and possibly additional capacity.

00:07:47: This is particularly relevant for Luxembourg.

00:07:50: Almost half of workforce lives abroad.

00:07:53: In the event of a recession or large-scale redundancies, A very large number people could come under the remit for Luxembourg Employment Services at that same time.

00:08:04: For Mandy Nersen it is therefore crucial to involve trade unions and other social partners At an early stage.

00:08:12: They are familiar with queries coming into advice centres And they can see where a rule That's clear in theory becomes incomprehensible.

00:08:22: Mandy Nürsen is sceptical about how all this will be implemented.

00:08:30: I don't think it'll turn out quite as we imagine, what we imagine always the ideal but if we improve communication and further enhance social dialogue We can work towards ensuring that it's implemented as effectively possible.

00:08:53: How wide is the gap between European aspirations and everyday reality?

00:08:58: Friedrich de Vispelare, a research fellow at Heifer – The Research Institute for Work & Society in Belgium.

00:09:07: His research focuses on intra-European labour mobility.

00:09:15: For him, it is crucial to distinguish between the law on paper and how it's applied in practice.

00:09:21: Law and action are then daily practise... ...and I can imagine that when applying social security regulation there're different challenges for the mobile worker or frontier worker….

00:09:36: …in order to understand what... his or her social security rights are in the cross-border context.

00:09:47: Mobile workers account for only a small proportion of all insured persons across Europe, national authorities tend to prioritize their own rules.

00:09:57: specialist knowledge of European coordination is costly time consuming and it's required relatively rarely.

00:10:05: consequently even case officers may not immediately know which country is responsible.

00:10:10: Workers are referred elsewhere.

00:10:12: They turn to tax advisers, lawyers or trade unions.

00:10:17: A right-to-free movement becomes a task that requires time knowledge and sometimes money.

00:10:24: Frederick de Vizpelare also considers the complete harmonisation of social security systems To be unrealistic.

00:10:32: When you look at The difference between the twenty seven Social Security System in European Union I think Aiming for harmonisation is just a hypothesis and it's just a dream.

00:10:48: So I think you have to be pragmatic, look at what can do in terms of coordination... ...and also support those who are

00:11:01: mobile.".

00:11:02: This means that institutions which act as intermediaries between the systems remain important.

00:11:09: These include public employment services such as Eurosti, advisory networks in border regions and trade unions.

00:11:17: For Devispe-Larais their role is also a matter of social justice.

00:11:22: I think trade unions are of huge importance.

00:11:27: So you have a crucial role for the public administrations but there you see the financial reality.

00:11:38: I think pressure on their financial capacity, the human capacity.

00:11:43: frontier work is looking also for support.

00:11:46: And what you should avoid?

00:11:48: it of course that only get to support your needs when can afforded.

00:11:55: At end this series The trail therefore leads back to Wasserbillig To a small trade union office On the border between Luxembourg and Germany.

00:12:04: This office cannot harmonise European social security systems.

00:12:10: It can not conclude tax agreements or adopt EU regulations, but it can explain to a worker which deadline applies….

00:12:19: …it can check documents... ...it can find the relevant authority and it can bring experiences of those affected back into political debate.

00:12:31: Freedom Of Movement is one of the European Union's great success stories.

00:12:36: Millions of people can work where their skills are needed without having to give up their home in another country.

00:12:42: But freedom-of-movement does not mean that national systems will disappear.

00:12:47: So far, people have had to navigate these transitions themselves with the support of advisors administrative bodies and trade unions.

00:12:56: The border is open For the system's come together as well.

00:13:00: we still need someone to mediate between them.

00:13:06: If you like WeWork Europe, do give us a five-star rating and don't forget to subscribe.

00:13:12: Also if you have any interesting topics or feedback for us just contact isa at isa.org.